What
attracted you to work on a story like Sometime, Sometime, and how did
production on the film begin?
One afternoon in 2018, Tan Chui Mui who is my boss suddenly
asked me how old I was. I said 27 and she said ‘it's time to make another film’. At that
time, she knew that I had two scripts on hand, one called Getting your
attention, which is a story about a film director, which had a more artistic
and complex story structure, and the other called Falling in
Love Again, which was a story about three men of different ages falling in love with the same
woman, which was effectively the longer version of my 2017 short film with the
same title. Chui Mui felt Falling in Love Again was more suitable for me to make at that stage, so we
started making this film. Later on, on second thought, I felt the story might
be a little too unreal as I think I gave myself too much freedom in the story idea.
So I decided to make some adjustments to the story to make it closer to my experience
and more realistic and this final version of Sometime , Sometime was created in this way.
This story is related to my own background, and my experience growing up. My mother passed away when I was 5 years old and I lived with my father and two brothers. So, when I was growing up, there was no female figure around me, but I didn't care. From the time of my university to the time I started working in Tan Chui Mui's DaHuang Pictures company after graduation, I found that my heart was subconsciously in need of a mother, and over time this need became more and more conscious. This is also reflected in the changes in my relationship with Tan Chu Mui over the years. We went from being boss and employee, to becoming like a family, and there were many days we argued. And this feeling is very special and new to me, just like how a mother treats a son. At that time, I felt a special impact from this relationship and it affected me a lot. I wanted to quickly record this relationship through this medium (cinema) which can preserve the moment in visuals and sound, for I knew that this was a make-believe relationship, we will never have the real thing. Therefore, there are many daily routines played out in the movie that may be boring or ordinary to the audience. But for me, it was my chance to experience a mother-child relationship, even though I was already in my 20s. Therefore, Sometime, Sometime is a projection of my mother-child relationship.
Could you tell us more about the process of working on the film's narrative,
given that there are quite a lot of spontaneous moments in the film? How much
of the story or dialogue was improvised?
Could you give some insight into how Tan Chui Mui came into the project, and
of your experience working with a seasoned filmmaker during the various stages
of production?
How did you end up playing the role of Zi Kien? Also, considering the age
difference between the character and yourself, did you ever feel any disconnect
or difficulty playing the role? (How old are you by the way?)
In fact, every piece of dialogue in the movie is written in the script, with only a few adjustments made on set. The reason why the audience feels like they are watching actors being spontaneous is that I have been observing myself and people around me. I like to observe people around me, like my boss, friends, long-term working partners, etc. I find them all interesting, the way of they speak, the actions, etc. However, often when I watch a movie, the people in the movie speak very in a standard style and the sentences are perfect. I feel that while this is well presented, but it is not good for this movie. The story of this movie and my purpose of making this movie (as answered in the first question) should try to restore what we see and hear in the real world, more specifically, what I see and hear,
As for the story, if I want to be a bit more self-indulgent,
maybe I will shoot the trivial things in daily life, there will be no story,
more like a documentary. But nevertheless, this is a feature film, and it
still needs a story to support this movie as a skeleton. So using the content that I already have,
I created two outsiders in the life of the mother and son, one being the
mother’s boyfriend, from which we witness the jealousy of the son, and the
other being the son’s classmate, which is the object of his affection. I
think everyone feels some jealousy, from childhood to growing up, but
why do people gradually hide this jealousy after growing up? This is because
society 's definition of what it means to be adult has caused us
to hide our jealousy. It does not mean that there is no jealousy, but we are just
suppressing it. As long as we face our jealousy honestly, and jealousy brings
bad things, we can break through the evil feeling of jealousy. Just like
the son in the movie, whose jealousy of his mother's boyfriend leads him to
show that he doesn't like the man through mischief. However, if it is a 3 to 5 year-old child, he will be openly display his jealousy,
unlike adults, who can pretend to be unaffected.
Tan Chui Mui is already my boss. After working together for so long, we have grown to each other enough, so she helped me produce my movie. Basically, my team and I handle most of the problems in the production. Chui Mui doesn't handle many problems in production and only when necessary, will I go and seek her guidance or advice. In addition to being the producer, Chui Mui is also the heroine of the movie. In this movie, her work is more in the interpretation and crafting of the role of mother. Therefore, we had more disagreements in this regard, and in many cases, I would be told off her, haha. For instance, the character of the mother in the movie is modelled after Chui Mui, and I have included a lot of her into the writing. But she doesn't want to play herself in the movie, and hoped that I could focus developing the mother character instead of focussing on her. In the real world, Chui Mui is a very strong, independent person with a lot of gravitas and aura , but in the movie, she is a gentle and fragile woman. This change was made after she read the script.
I am 29 years old now and when this movie was made, I was 27 years old. My character in the movie is 17 to 18 years old. There are several reasons why I had to play this role. Firstly, maybe for others, this is just a movie, but for me, it serves to fill a lost portion of my life, the relationship between mother and son. In other words, I am using cinema to complete myself. Secondly, because I look like a child. Many people who meet me for the first time will think that I am a middle school student. But Chui Mui said that I am getting old, and if I want to act in this role, I must do it quickly, or I will get old, so I can't do the role anymore. So we started shooting as soon as we got enough funds. Finally, it is also important that Chui Mui and I look believable as mother and son. Half a year before the filming started, due to work reasons, Chui Mui and I would often attend events together or go abroad. Those who saw me for the first time would ask Chui Mui: Is this your son? Therefore, I believe that this movie would not be complete without us playing mother and son.
To what extent are the actors (meaning you and Chui Mui) playing a
bit of yourself? There was a moment the young girl called you 'Jacky' instead
of Zi Kien, so the lines are indeed quite blur.
To some extent we are indeed playing part of ourselves. I
think it is impossible for the actors and the characters in the movie to be
separated. They influence each other. Before the filming of the film, we let
the characters enter their bodies. After the filming, some parts of the
characters become us. This is what I believe. As for the scene in the
movie in which the supporting actress called out the name "Jacky". For people who don't know me, they might think
this is Zi Kien’s English name. But people who know me, this is like me
having a conversation with myself through the movie. In fact, this scene
was designed to make the audience suddenly awaken to the fact that you are just
watching a show. The narrative is all fake. In another instance, in the
middle of the movie, when he was eating with his mother, father, father-in-law
and mother-in-law in a vegetarian restaurant, his father told him that his
movie would be better if he added music. Next thing we know, non-diegetic
sound appears in the film.
What is the difference between working on a short film and a
feature? Were there any unexpected difficulties that you faced working on a
more ambitious and lengthy project?
At the beginning, I was very confident, we were a low-cost production, and the funds were all from subsidies, so there is no pressure. I did make it as a short film, and it was just a relatively long short film. As it was self-directed and self-acted, I am also very confident. Two days after the filming started, my biggest suffering was exhaustion. I found out that acting would consume a lot of mental and physical energy. When the assistant director said cut, I was a little tired and had to watch monitor check playback . After a few times, I started to feel tired and couldn't concentrate on too much work. In the end, I decided to trust my deputy director, because he is a long-term friend of mine, and he also knows me and Chui Mui well, so I basically relied on him for performance, and I just concentrated on acting.
是什么激发了您想出Sometime，Sometime类型的故事? 电影的制作是怎么开始的？
这片中有很多自发的瞬间，您能分享塑造电影故事情节的过程吗？ 拍摄过程中，会紧跟着剧本吗，还是有很多现场的即兴创作？
其实电影里的每一句对白都是写在剧本里的，只有些许的在现场做调整。至于为什么观众观看的时候会觉得演员好像都是自由发挥，是因为我一直都在观察自己和身边的人。我很喜欢研究我身边喜欢的人，像我的老板，朋友，长期的工作伙伴等，我觉得他们都很有趣，说话的方式，动作等等。但是，每次我看电影的时候，戏里的人说话都很标准，句子都很完美，我感觉那种呈现方式很好，但是对这部电影是不好的。这部电影的故事和我要做这部电影的目的（如第一题所回答的）应该尽可能还原我们现实世界里眼睛所看到和听到的东西，更细的说，是我看到和听到的东西。
至于故事方面，如果自私一些，也许我会都拍琐碎的日常生活，不会有故事，更像是纪录片。但怎么说都好，这是一部剧情片，依然需要一个story来支撑这个电影as一个骨架。所以我就再衍生自己已经有的内容，在这对母子的日常生活，创造出两个外来者，一个是妈妈的男朋友，这可表现儿子的嫉妒，另外一个是儿子的同班同学，也就是他喜欢的对象。我觉得每个人都拥有嫉妒这个个性，从小孩子，到长大，但为什么长大后慢慢越来越少表现嫉妒这个个性呢？这是因为社会对一个成年人的定义，导致我们把这个嫉妒的个性藏了起来，但，这不代表没有，只是我们在压抑。只要我们诚实面对自己的嫉妒，而嫉妒带来不好的东西，我们才有办法突破嫉妒这个恶个性。就像电影里的儿子，因为嫉妒妈妈的男朋友，开始透过作怪来表现不喜欢这个男人。但，如果是一个3-5岁的小孩子，他会直接表现出来，不像大人，会假装喜欢，但其实不喜欢。
您能否谈谈陈翠梅是如何参与这片子的制作，以及您与行内经验丰富的翠梅合作的经验？
陈翠梅本来就是我的老板，经过长期的合作，我们足够认识对方，所以她帮我制片我的电影。基本上陈翠梅并不会控制很多在制作方面的问题，都让我和我的团队去处理，只有在必要时候才会出来指引道路或者我需要她的时候才会提供意见。这是因为陈翠梅除了是制片，同时，她也是电影的女主角。在这部电影里，她比较多参与的是关于如何诠释妈妈这个角色，因此，我们之间在这方面就有了比较多的冲突，而很多时候，我都会被她说法，哈哈。如电影里妈妈这个角色的原型是陈翠梅，我把她在现实世界的样子，写进去。但她不想在电影里演自己，希望我还是可以专注电影里妈妈这个角色，而不是陈翠梅这个人。现实世界里，陈翠梅是一个很有气质，强势，自主，有aura的一个人，但电影里，她是一个温柔既脆弱的女人。这样的改变是她在读了剧本后，对里头单亲妈妈的一种设计。
您如何对待扮演Zi Kien的角色？ 另外，考虑到角色和自己之间的年龄差异，您是否曾感到扮演角色时有任何脱节或困难之处？ （顺便问下你今年几岁）
我今年29岁，拍这部电影的时候是27岁，电影里扮演角色的年龄是17-18岁。有几个原因导致我必须饰演这个角色。第一，也许对别人来说，这只是一部电影，但对我来说，它是填补我生命中失去的那一段生活，母亲和儿子的关系。换句话说，我利用电影，来完整我自己。第二，因为我的样子长得比较稚气，这不是我说的，而是现实生活中，那些第一次见到我的人都会以为我是中学生。但陈翠梅说我老了，如果要演，就要赶快拍，不然会越来越老，就不能演了，所以我们一凑到足够的资金，就马上开拍。最后，这也很重要，就是我和陈翠梅，这两个人是否带给别人一种母子的形象。电影开拍前半年，因为工作关系，我和陈翠梅常常会一起出席活动或者出国，那些第一次见到我的人，都会问陈翠梅：这是你儿子吗？所以，我相信，让我们两个来演，才是这部电影的完整。
演员（就是指您和陳翠梅）在多大程度上在扮演自己呢？ 记得有一幕，那位小女生把你叫成“ Jacky”，而不是Zi Kien。
某种程度上我们确实在扮演着自己的一部分。我觉得演员和电影里的角色是不可能分开的，互相影响着，电影开拍前，我们让角色进入自己的身体，电影拍摄完毕后，角色的某些部分成为了现实的我们，这是我相信的东西。至于电影有一场戏是女配角喊了“Jacky”这个名字。对不认识我的人来说，也许会认为这是陈子健的英文名字。但认识我的人，就知道，或者隐隐约约可以察觉到，这是一种我对我自己的电影的一种回应，自己和自己说话的感觉。选择设计这场戏是因为我想让观众跳出来，其实，你们只是在看戏，这些都是假的。其实不只是这场有“导演”的出现。在电影的中段，他和母亲，爸爸，公公婆婆在素食馆的聚会。爸爸对儿子说，如果他用手机拍的影片可以加音乐应该会更好。接下来，电影就出现了Non-diegetic sound。
制作短片和长片有什么区别？ 制作长片的过程毕竟比较有挑战性，你在过程中有遇到什么意料之外的困难呢？
一开始我很有自信，加上我们是低成本制作，资金都是来自辅助金，所以没有压力。我确实把它当作短片来制作，这只是一部比较长的短片罢了。加上自导自演，也非常有自信。电影开拍两天后，面对最大的苦难是疲惫。我发现原来演戏的时候会消耗很多精神和体力，当副导演喊cut后，些许疲惫的我必须去看monitor check playback，几次后，我开始感到累了，无法专注太多岗位。最后，我决定相信我的副导演，因为他是我长期合作的朋友，也很了解我和陈翠梅，所以表演上的好与不好，我基本上都很依靠他，而我就专心表演就好。
Interview by Timothy Ong and Jeremy Sing